tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post4396352949642758748..comments2024-03-28T18:54:13.800-04:00Comments on alien romances: The New CB Radio: "Come on back!"Rowena Cherryhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11839386556697211986noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-58881367312783394412017-06-30T13:57:50.694-04:002017-06-30T13:57:50.694-04:00You don't permanently "forget" your ...You don't permanently "forget" your native language when learning a new one -- nor the culture that goes with it. You add new perspectives. Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-53638402420524292342009-03-30T12:54:00.000-04:002009-03-30T12:54:00.000-04:00Jaye:The generation gap you can see widening happe...Jaye:<BR/><BR/>The generation gap you can see widening happens in every generation. <BR/><BR/>I was in Robert Heinlein's house visiting when I learned something that had been drummed into my head all my life before that point -- and I never got it.<BR/><BR/>The thing that made Robert always YOUNG was the zest and enthusiasm with which he embraced everything NEW (and he was older than I am now). <BR/><BR/>At that time, he was one of the first adopters of the Winchester Drive, the granddaddy of today's hard drive -- the first device to be called "external hard drive" which was a mysterious technical term at the time.<BR/><BR/>This attitude is what Science Fiction fans call THE SENSE OF WONDER. One reason we gravitate toward SF and all imaginative literature that flattens the walls around our minds is to retain the SENSE OF WONDER that impells us to sample everything new and selectively embrace that which can be useful.<BR/><BR/>Today I add a new philosophy to what I learned from Robert. <BR/><BR/>When something new and "pointless" like Twitter flashes through the community, embraced by the young and shunned by the old, it is very likely truly useless at that point.<BR/><BR/>Our job, at this point in life, is to use this new tool for some worthy purpose, to find an application of its power that elevates the condition of all mankind. <BR/><BR/>Children's toys serve a purpose. There is a wisdom that says the wisest among us PLAY throughout all stages of life.<BR/><BR/>PLAY is the signature of the ever-growing, ever evolving consciousness. <BR/><BR/>Play with all the new things, delight in them, and find the renewed joy of a SENSE OF WONDER. Then, using that wonder, you can tackle the more grownup job of applying the new, useless, tool to adult purposes. <BR/><BR/>Note also that Facebook was the venue of teens -- but today it's the habitat of grownups. And they still play with all those "applications" -- eventually, they will invent a useful use for it all.<BR/><BR/>I intend to be part of that inventing crowd. <BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-55973922282467659982009-03-30T12:44:00.000-04:002009-03-30T12:44:00.000-04:00Bleustar:I see your comment about conflict being b...Bleustar:<BR/><BR/>I see your comment about conflict being based on mis-communication as about parallel to the comment I made on http://editingcircle.blogspot.com/2009/03/in-beginning.html <BR/>where I pointed out that the beginning of the story involves both the main Protagonist and the Protagonist setting their GOAL which must be achieved in at the last page or so. The topic was focused on SFRomance, but it applies across a broad spectrum.<BR/><BR/>One way a writer has of showing the reader the protag's main goal that will be achieved is by starting the story where the protag DENIES ALL INVOLVEMENT with that goal, expresses adamant aversion to that goal. They'd rather die than do XYZ.<BR/><BR/>When a story starts with blatant mis-communication, that shows the reader that the conflict it sparks will be the last of the conflicts resolved - on the last page. <BR/><BR/>In SF and other adventure or heroic fiction, the readers come prepared to enjoy a character setting a goal and achieving it in the end, consciously. <BR/><BR/>In Romance, readers are looking for the TRUTH inside the character, beneath the conscious level, and so a subconscious goal is a fascinating story element. <BR/><BR/>When you combine both, you can generate a neat SFR or Fantasy Romance that satisfies both readerships -- and can work within the space of one novel. <BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-29386149625747024432009-03-29T21:17:00.000-04:002009-03-29T21:17:00.000-04:00I really am almost an alien, myself, to blogging, ...I really am almost an alien, myself, to blogging, and as for twittering. I look at it as something from a hell dimension that came through a portal and which needs to get banished back. You can tell what generation I'm from. Scratch that... I think is a growing dimension warp, and I'm getting more and more on the wrong side of it.Jayenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-75784485359068603482009-03-29T17:40:00.000-04:002009-03-29T17:40:00.000-04:00Jacqueline...Haven't I just become much more cogni...Jacqueline...<BR/><BR/>Haven't I just become much more cognizant of romance as a genre lately. Laugh.<BR/><BR/>But you are correct, of course.<BR/><BR/>Time and again, what I find myself drawn to repeatedly in such stories isn't the descriptions of huge muscles or flowing blond hair, it's the dialog.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, that's a total "D'uh" moment, dialog drives any story or conflict, but I find myself far less interested in what the kids do together than in how they get there.<BR/><BR/>And while my little sub-genre is by necessity rather narrow, I *seem* to be seeing a larger trend in that direction. Either that or I'm subconsciously ignoring all the how-to manuals. heh.<BR/><BR/>Either way, no matter how it is achieved, dissected, discussed, mapped, planned, or prodded, communication is vital to the concept of coming together, be it between two people, between countries, or between alien races.<BR/><BR/>There simply MUST be a bridge.<BR/><BR/>And it should be noted that there is a rather large irony in the observation above: More often than not, conflict is derived from the character's MIS-communication. :)Patrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01708149328435413328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-20597575464138027332009-03-29T16:12:00.000-04:002009-03-29T16:12:00.000-04:00ozambersand:Yes, exactly! It's such a thrill when...ozambersand:<BR/><BR/>Yes, exactly! It's such a thrill when someone actually hears what I'm saying!!! <BR/><BR/>Thank you!<BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-46487936665007518972009-03-29T15:07:00.000-04:002009-03-29T15:07:00.000-04:00Jacqueline, those dot points on conversational ski...Jacqueline, those dot points on conversational skills will come in handy for working out dialogue in scenes.<BR/>If communication is happening I can think of the points that engender it and make sure my dialogue is following those suggestions. Vice versa if real communication should be happening but isn't happening, I can use elements of the other dot points!<BR/>Thanks a bunch!ozambersandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07171187154978269102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-62032727139610133132009-03-29T14:43:00.000-04:002009-03-29T14:43:00.000-04:00Kate:Ah, GREAT SF THINKING THERE! That's a marvel...Kate:<BR/><BR/>Ah, GREAT SF THINKING THERE! <BR/><BR/>That's a marvelous premise for an SF Romance since (as you'll see in my post for March 31) I'm now into discussing communication in romance via symbolism. <BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-76344290062059506872009-03-29T13:22:00.000-04:002009-03-29T13:22:00.000-04:00Well, thanks for clarifying -- that really does ea...Well, thanks for clarifying -- that really does ease my mind!<BR/><BR/>As you say, I'd taken the original posting literally: I'd thought that the inventor[s] of Ulpan actually, and scarily, HAD discovered a way to "erase" someone's native language -- so I shuddered because I imagined (say) an Elizabethan-literature professor taking an Ulpan course and losing his/her job because s/he could no longer read Shakespeare _et_al._ except in translation ...KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-16636271910722733172009-03-29T13:18:00.000-04:002009-03-29T13:18:00.000-04:00And one more additional comment on communication.A...And one more additional comment on communication.<BR/><BR/>As I mentioned, there are a plethora of tutorials on how to "use Twitter" -- but people are making big bucks offering tutorials on CONVERSATIONAL SKILLS.<BR/><BR/>This has, in fact, been a lucrative industry ever since I remember, but I'm particularly impressed by the range, and depth of skills and "tricks" they are now offering to teach you. <BR/><BR/>Conversation (from the Victorian Drawing Room onwards at least, and no doubt in Ancient Rome as well) has always been a combat arena in which one must score points. <BR/><BR/>But I think making an entire industry out of teaching people Conversation may be new. You're supposed to learn these things from your parents. <BR/><BR/>What seems to me really a recent (couple decades maybe) development is the malicious tone to the science behind Conversation -- what you must know to hold your own.<BR/><BR/>Here is a bullet-point list used to advertise a $20 set of 2 CD's you really need to succeed in the world! Note "talk show hosts": <BR/>--------------<BR/>The set, which runs just under two hours in length, explores: <BR/><BR/>The five basic rules for making lasting, influential connections. <BR/>What to say to make your first impression unforgettable. <BR/>Why "using" people isn't wrong at all. <BR/>The "hard" and "soft" attitudes toward cultivating people. <BR/>Why every single encounter with another person is an opportunity to further your aims in life. <BR/>The need to dismantle your "blocking system." <BR/>How poor communication skills can harm you in your professional life — and your love life. <BR/>The first step: Accept the obligation of starting a conversation, because "he who wants the fire must fan the flames." <BR/>How to overcome shyness. <BR/>Why you should store intriguing anecdotes in your "mental treasury." <BR/>The "Kernersville ploy" and how to use it to your advantage. <BR/>How some basic research before a party or gathering can help turn contacts there into assets. <BR/>Talk-show hosts' tricks in stimulating a conversation. <BR/>How to battle "language erosion" and enrich your conversations. <BR/>A top insurance executive's surprising formula for success — and how to adapt it to improve your communication skills. <BR/>The right — and wrong — ways to instigate a conversation. <BR/>Why asking for advice can be a "secret weapon" in getting ahead. <BR/>Conversational tricks to making a good impression at an interview. <BR/>How to treat the world like a "cafeteria of wit" to get people to listen to you. <BR/>The oft-used conversational question you should avoid. <BR/>The three categories of conversations — talking up, talking down, and talking straight ahead. <BR/>How to look for the "aperture of intimacy" when meeting a member of the opposite sex. <BR/>Tried and true conversation starters. <BR/>The game you can play to bolster your conversational skills. <BR/>Why listening to others is "the most flattering kind of espionage." <BR/>How amplifying the triumphs of others can win their favor. <BR/>How to avoid potentially offensive remarks. <BR/>The mistake men often make when meeting a woman — and how to avoid it. <BR/>What the parable of the parrot teaches about the importance of conversation.<BR/>--------------<BR/>Is it small wonder parents have to be taught to listen to their newborn or how to use Twitter?<BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-69133974270714202112009-03-29T12:45:00.000-04:002009-03-29T12:45:00.000-04:00Kate GladstoneApparently, you've taken the concept...Kate Gladstone<BR/><BR/>Apparently, you've taken the concept "forget your native language" literally.<BR/><BR/>A few days ago, we had a guest post from Suzzette Hadin Elgin, a writer I believe I've posted about here -- and I've certainly discussed her work extensively in my professional review column.<BR/><BR/>Her field is Linguistics, a long time favorite topic of mine.<BR/><BR/>A long time ago, the Actor/International Folk Singer Theordore Bikel recorded an album of songs with concert style patter in between songs. His specialty is singing in dozens of languages (he's even lost count). <BR/><BR/>On one recording, he tells a story of a Judge trying to deal with an Accused who doesn't speak English, so they call in someone to translate. <BR/><BR/>Bikel does both parts, in various languages, as he tells the story. The audience actually understands at least two of the languages (he only tells this story where they do). <BR/><BR/>The punch line is where the translator speaks to the Judge in the Accused's language, and to the Accused in the Judge's language. <BR/><BR/>The audience ROARS, and the tone of that laughter tells it all.<BR/><BR/>Everyone in the audience has had this experience. <BR/><BR/>Why? <BR/><BR/>Because almost everyone in the audience is natively multi-lingual.<BR/><BR/>Suzzette Haden Elgin's novels (she writes novels based on her world famous linguistic theories to explain how they work, and they make her abstract points very clear) give you a real grasp of what Bikel's audience is experiencing, and what the joke is.<BR/><BR/>It all lies in that technical term in linguistics, ACQUISITION of a language.<BR/><BR/>The Ulpan method is based on re-triggering in the adult the ability a child has to ACQUIRE a language rather than learn it. <BR/><BR/>It is possible for humans to acquire several languages as children (I think someone measured a maximum, but I can't recall it right now). <BR/><BR/>The breakthrough method of the Ulpan in the 1930's and 1940's was the taking away of other language opportunities and allowing only one means of communicating. The drive to communicate is so strong, so survival oriented, that the brain will actually acquire a language long after the brain cells designed to do that have shut down.<BR/><BR/>Today, modern brain research explains it. We can, even as adults, recircuit our brains, and new brain cells to do specific jobs can be created. <BR/><BR/>Languages that are ACQUIRED -- regardless of the age at acquisition -- act just like the pickle the translator found himself in before the Judge. <BR/><BR/>You literally don't know you spoke in the wrong language, because to your inner urge to communicate, all your acquired languages are one. It is easy to get confused.<BR/><BR/>You don't TRANSLATE, you simply say what you have to say. <BR/><BR/>When you have not spoken an acquired language for a while, or have disciplined yourself not to speak in that language, cadence or accent, and then try to deliberately speak in that language -- you literally can't FIND it inside your head. <BR/><BR/>You forget a native language.<BR/><BR/>It is an odd feeling, somewhat on a par with the experience of having kinesiology tried on you for the first time. The chiropractor will test the strength of your arm held out straight, and it's strong. Then he'll tap gently on some body point, and test the arm again, and your arm will collapse weakly.<BR/><BR/>Everyone who has had this done to them the first time experiences and expressing the most universe-transforming astonishment. <BR/><BR/>When a multi-lingual by acquisition person discovers they're speaking the "wrong language, not the one intended, for the first time, they laugh in exactly the tone the I've heard people laugh when their arm collapses. <BR/><BR/>But of course, the strength is restored either with time, or by adjusting the body so energy flows more evenly. And likewise, languages you have acquired don't ever just disappear, forgotten forever -- they're just sometimes hard to access in an odd way.<BR/><BR/>You don't know what language you're speaking, and actually it doesn't make any difference as long as you're understood.<BR/><BR/>Multi-lingual families will bustle through the whole dinner hour speaking in sentences that are half in one language, half in another -- or sometimes with English words interjected, it can come to three or four languages per utterance. <BR/><BR/>Acquired languages work differently inside our brains than "learned" languages do. <BR/><BR/>And it is possible to "acquire" a language even after having learned it from textbooks. <BR/><BR/>The point to take away here is that the urge to communicate is PRIMAL, even more primal than the urge to pair-bond and reproduce. <BR/><BR/>This fact lies at the core of many Romances, and perhaps at the core of the existence of the Romance genre, and the battle of the sexes.<BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-49379241632215739842009-03-29T12:20:00.000-04:002009-03-29T12:20:00.000-04:00Patric:That's an excellent summary of the basic is...Patric:<BR/><BR/>That's an excellent summary of the basic issues of communication.<BR/><BR/>Since communication (or miscommunication or the lack of any communication) is actually the core of Romance, this is right on topic, even though it may seem abstract, theoretical, or even scientific.<BR/><BR/>The science of communication can indeed be the "science" in SFR. <BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-87681373648280595962009-03-28T20:24:00.000-04:002009-03-28T20:24:00.000-04:00Re:"And Kate, the answer is no, unless the human r...Re:<BR/>"And Kate, the answer is no, unless the human race learns the capacity to communicate, and thereby learn that nothing will be lost of their respective cultures and ideas unless they choose to let them go. It's rather easy to be bi-lingual, after all."<BR/><BR/>Yes, "it's rather easy to be bi-lingual" -- <BR/><BR/>but the Ulpan educational method (as described in the original posting) apparently makes it IMPOSSIBLE (at least for some students) to become or remain bi-lingual. <BR/><BR/>According to the original posting, it seems that (at least for some students) Ulpan instruction "erases" the student's native language. (An unintended side-effect? Or an INTENDED effect: do the providers of Ulpan instruction WANT to perform some sort of "linguistic cleansing" so that the graduating student will entirely belong to the new language and the new culture?)<BR/><BR/>So ... what happens if <BR/>the Galactic Federation/<BR/>Interstellar Technocracy/<BR/>___[insert your preferred name for a multi-species, multi-star-system culture/civilization]___ <BR/>has developed a sort of "instant Ulpan" ... <BR/>to gain whatever irresistibly enticing Good Stuff the aliens have to offer (eternal life and health, for starters?), <BR/>we poor benighted Terrans need only take a nano-pill/don a head-set for half a second/let the alien "absorption center" clinician shoot this special beam at our skulls/whatever, <BR/>and instantly we turn from speakers of one or more Terran languages into perfect monolingual speakers (indistinguishable from any native speaker) of Galactic-Federation-ese ... ?<BR/>And what if the magic pill/headset/ray/whatever makes the student PERMANENTLY monolingual, too (so that s/he cannot re-learn his/her former language, no matter how much s/he wants to and how hard s/he tries)? A culture that made perfect mastery of its language the price of admission -- and that had the technology to give anyone such mastery in an instant -- could presumably take the technology a little further and make it impossible for adult "instant learners" of Lingua Galactica to ever speak anything else ... (which would have the interesting consequence that the alien embassy to Earth would have to be staffed entirely by actual native speakers -- as opposed to technologically created "instant natives" -- of the galactic language ... )KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-28786257208148188202009-03-28T17:25:00.000-04:002009-03-28T17:25:00.000-04:00Kimber An says the key to listening is to assess t...Kimber An says the key to listening is to assess the baby's crying, interpret its need, and fulfill the underlying desire.<BR/><BR/>"Listen to the baby." in other words.<BR/><BR/>KateGladstone asks if the human race would be willing to give up its various self identities in exchange for galactic membership.<BR/>One must presume the human race is willing to listen to what is offered in such membership before making a decision.<BR/><BR/>"Listen to the parents." in other words.<BR/><BR/>Ozambersand said "Good listening requires the ability to put aside the notion of “self” and get into the shoes of the speaker." <BR/><BR/>"Listen to others." in other words.<BR/><BR/>According to the message of the video Jacqueline cites, twitterers are merely shouting into the void.<BR/><BR/>"Listen to me." in other words.<BR/><BR/>The commonality is of course, listening. <BR/><BR/>It can be argued that there is no language, and by extension no communication, unless someone is listening to correlate sounds into abstract ideas, and while the argument has about as much usefulness as the sound of a tree falling in a forest with no one around, it raises an interesting point: How exactly do we listen, in the first place?<BR/><BR/>Jacqueline touched on the notion by saying that an infant's first scream contains no concept of 'me', only a call for help. Fair enough, but what about the second scream, or the third?<BR/><BR/>On a purely physiological level within the infant's brain, synapses are dividing and joining at an exponential rate, and with each new connection comes glimmers of abstract thought. Definitely random, wholly uncoordinated, but eventually those little glimmers coalesce into *meaning*, so long before the baby discovers the joys of having only one word to express everything from being wet to being angry, the baby discovers "self". "I made that sound. Me." <BR/><BR/>Then she learns to modulate her single word as more mechanical linkages connect, and she learns 'instant gratification'. Cry a certain way, and the parental units come running. She has learned to justify herself. <BR/><BR/>Most good parents (and Kimber An already knows this) understand that sometimes you just have to let the baby cry herself out. Ironically, that's most often when the baby takes the greatest understanding of herself, if not the world around her. She finds her hand, her foot, her blanket, whatever, and pops it into her mouth. We've all seen it. :)<BR/><BR/>In other words, the baby learns to communicate. Not JUST with the world around her, but with herself. This is an important distinction, because more often than not, we LOSE that ability to communicate with ourselves, usually by finding, or being given, a substitute.<BR/><BR/>"Can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street?"<BR/><BR/>Ever watch a toddler TALK to the TV? :)<BR/><BR/>Ever notice how often a parent, especially a young one will say to the baby-sitter, "If she gets fussy, there are DVD's on the shelf." ?<BR/><BR/>Long about the time that physiological changes permit 'relational self awareness' (where the baby believes she is the center of the universe and the big people are satellites around her) MOST of the 'relational reinforcements' are taken away. And with that removal comes the loss of abstract communication. A TV doesnt talk back in any meaningful way. It ANSWERS, noise for noise, but it doesnt communicate. And language becomes a series of 'trades', noise for noise, word for word, and by the time the child is beyond those crucial formative steps, the pattern is so ingrained it follows into adulthood.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Dont believe me? Consider any conversation you've ever had where both parties are commiserating:<BR/><BR/>"I had a horrible day today. My hamster took a header off her wheel and broke her tail."<BR/>"I know what you mean. I had a cat once that got its tail caught in a screen door. It was awful.<BR/><BR/>"Gosh my back hurts today."<BR/>"Yeah. I've had an ache in my legs for days."<BR/><BR/>I versus I. Its how we validate ourselves, in comparison to others, because we've forgotten how to communicate. And on a much deeper level, we've forgotten how to communicate with outselves.<BR/><BR/>Consider this little snippet of conversation:<BR/><BR/>"Oh my, Ethyl's boyfriend caught her tangling the sheets with the gardener. Dont you think thats awful?"<BR/><BR/>Why does that last question even matter? Can the speaker not tell for herself how she feels about the act? Probably not, because she is basing her understanding of the situation on what her neighbor thinks, rather than examining her own feelings, rather than communicating with herself.<BR/><BR/>The only 'relational' that exists for her is herself to other people. <BR/><BR/>So now, our hypothetical infant is twenty years older, and once again, she has been given a substitute for communication.<BR/><BR/>As part of the twitter crowd, she shouts into the void (in 140 characters or less) "I am alive!" And someone shouts back, "So am I!" Instant gratification, and validation. Right back from the time of infancy. <BR/><BR/>So, Kimber An, when you say "My belief is if you want someone to listen to you, first listen to that person." I'd have to disagree and say that if you want someone to *listen* to you, you must first be able to listen to yourself.<BR/><BR/>And Kate, the answer is no, unless the human race learns the capacity to communicate, and thereby learn that nothing will be lost of their respective cultures and ideas unless they choose to let them go. It's rather easy to be bi-lingual, after all.<BR/><BR/>And ozambersand, I offer up this windy missive as a possible answer to why we tend, more often than not, to interject rather than listen.<BR/><BR/>Thanks Jacqueline!<BR/><BR/>PatricPatrichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01708149328435413328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-29305055468532620422009-03-26T22:53:00.000-04:002009-03-26T22:53:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-59263758830388173112009-03-26T14:02:00.000-04:002009-03-26T14:02:00.000-04:00I once read an article about the telegraph as the ...I once read an article about the telegraph as the nineteenth-century equivalent of the Internet. Telegraph operators, as the technology geeks of their day, established a network of communication among themselves over the wires.Margaret Carterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08293021955480708191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-64047901289232934132009-03-26T06:41:00.000-04:002009-03-26T06:41:00.000-04:00Apologies to various commentators whose very welco...Apologies to various commentators whose very welcome remarks came in overnight and did not get approved until I woke up.<BR/><BR/>:-)<BR/>RowenaRowena Cherryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11839386556697211986noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-11574511703839290932009-03-25T21:47:00.000-04:002009-03-25T21:47:00.000-04:00Please drop a note on this blog to demonstrate tha...<I>Please drop a note on this blog to demonstrate that you have something to say, someone to say it to other than yourself, and know how to say it.</I><BR/>You asked for it Jacqueline….<BR/> “Do these neo-tweeters need to be held in contempt? Or do they need to be nurtured until they have something to communicate, someone to communicate it to, as well as the means to do so?”<BR/>I see the problem from a different angle. I see it more that there are not enough people who know how to “listen”. That’s why so many people are “screaming”.<BR/>While the baby was only screaming in frustration, anger or hunger, the fact that someone listened and took action to solve the problem gradually brought about that awareness of “other” that was missing in the first place.<BR/>Listening is becoming a lost art. As more and more people are allowed to vent in blogs and tweets, they are forgetting that aspect of the equation. Yes, you will get the ones who support the tweeter and blogger with a “You go girl” or the equivalent, but how many try to ascertain what is at the root of the blog or tweet and suggest solutions? I suspect that the more blogging and tweeting that goes on, the more the people these bogs and tweets are aimed at will shut their ears and eyes.<BR/>So, why is it so hard to listen? Good listening requires the ability to put aside the notion of “self” and get into the shoes of the speaker. Many people who appear to be “listening” will actually adopt the first opportunity they can to break into the discussion with advice and bring their own “self” into the mix, offering advice or relating stories from their experience which may or may not have relevance. (Like this one! Lol)<BR/>They miss the fact that often the first rant has no bearing on what the actual problem is. A good listener will suppress that urge to interject and delve further. <BR/>(I wrote this all before I read Kimber Ann’s comment – great minds think alike. I left it in as it is crucial to why people are screaming)<BR/>This brings the third aspect of the screaming/listening equation into play. The attention span. The thirty second sound bite, the “fast, bite size yippety yap”, the pace of today’s world has reduced our ability to take the time to listen or even “scream” properly.<BR/>I would assume that those who “blog” and read blogs have more patience than “tweeters” so their scream is longer and more thoughtful. A twitterer may scream but have they the patience to listen to the effect of that scream? They will have to learn (as the baby does) that someone is listening to their “twitter” and will take it seriously. Then maybe they will mature into interactive bloggers.<BR/>Finally: <I>Good futurology starts in the past...</I><BR/>The “difficult” true life WIP that I have mentioned to you in the Editing Blog, has its hero a missionary called Thomas Kendall. His role in the first settlement in New Zealand was to teach the maori about religion. The speed at which he learnt their language and was able to converse in it in comparison to all the other Europeans had a huge effect on what transpired. His compatriots viewed him with suspicion because he knew what was being said and they didn’t. As he learnt their language, he learnt about them and became more respectful while they were still seen as savages (think alien) by the others. This pulled him more and more away from his wife and fellow missionaries into the maori world. To exacerbate things, he was before his time and respected their rights to retain their language and culture instead of just supplanting it with Victorian England culture. More conflict. <BR/>So the lack of the ability to communicate can build huge barriers between those that can and those that can’t. It will be interesting to see if similar divisions will occur in society today between those who can “blog” and “tweet” and those that can’t. Will the non-tweeters be held in contempt?<BR/>Because my true-life WIP was proving so difficult to write, I am 7 chapters into a scifi novel using the lessons learnt in the past, guessing that if we did interact with aliens the same issues would crop up.<BR/>From what I have read, most scifi relies on the incoming aliens to have watched Earth’s TV to learn our language so they can speak to us in our language. Unless we are lucky and they are more like the Thomas Kendall’s and other enlightened first contact people of the past, Kate’s fears may come true:<BR/>"Would we six billion Earthlings willingly, eagerly, line up to forget English, Russian, Chinese, Hindi, Indonesian, Japanese, and its 4000+ other languages (which means losing big chunks of the cultures that go with them) as the price of acquiring perfect command of Conversational Alien and, with it, galactic citizenship?"<BR/>I am fascinated in my work environment how different our migrants are when they are able to speak to one of our staff in their own tongue. Sometimes, I have to take a customer out of the shop and into the neighbouring tobacconist so that they can translate how to use medication in Cantonese! My life would be easier if we all spoke “Conversational Alien”. Culturally though it would be poorer. It’s interesting to see how in modern New Zealand, there is a strong push to ensure young maori learn to speak in their own language. Many see that as a way to reach those who are lost in society because they have no contact with their cultural roots.<BR/>Common language, communication, listening and taking the time for all to occur is essential for a society to function properly. Tossing random irrelevant remarks into the twitter-sphere is the antithesis of this. Will it change us? Time will tell.ozambersandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07171187154978269102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-43727302266969834302009-03-25T19:00:00.000-04:002009-03-25T19:00:00.000-04:00Please drop a note on this blog to demonstrate tha...Please drop a note on this blog to demonstrate that you have something to say, someone to say it to other than yourself, and know how to say it.<BR/>You asked for it Jacqueline….<BR/> “Do these neo-tweeters need to be held in contempt? Or do they need to be nurtured until they have something to communicate, someone to communicate it to, as well as the means to do so?”<BR/>I see the problem from a different angle. I see it more that there are not enough people who know how to “listen”. That’s why so many people are “screaming”.<BR/>While the baby was only screaming in frustration, anger or hunger, the fact that someone listened and took action to solve the problem gradually brought about that awareness of “other” that was missing in the first place.<BR/>Listening is becoming a lost art. As more and more people are allowed to vent in blogs and tweets, they are forgetting that aspect of the equation. Yes, you will get the ones who support the tweeter and blogger with a “You go girl” or the equivalent, but how many try to ascertain what is at the root of the blog or tweet and suggest solutions? I suspect that the more blogging and tweeting that goes on, the more the people these bogs and tweets are aimed at will shut their ears and eyes.<BR/>So, why is it so hard to listen? Good listening requires the ability to put aside the notion of “self” and get into the shoes of the speaker. Many people who appear to be “listening” will actually adopt the first opportunity they can to break into the discussion with advice and bring their own “self” into the mix, offering advice or relating stories from their experience which may or may not have relevance. (Like this one! Lol)<BR/>They miss the fact that often the first rant has no bearing on what the actual problem is. A good listener will suppress that urge to interject and delve further. <BR/>(I wrote this all before I read Kimber Ann’s comment – great minds think alike. I left it in as it is crucial to why people are screaming)<BR/>This brings the third aspect of the screaming/listening equation into play. The attention span. The thirty second sound bite, the “fast, bite size yippety yap”, the pace of today’s world has reduced our ability to take the time to listen or even “scream” properly.<BR/>I would assume that those who “blog” and read blogs have more patience than “tweeters” so their scream is longer and more thoughtful. A twitterer may scream but have they the patience to listen to the effect of that scream? They will have to learn (as the baby does) that someone is listening to their “twitter” and will take it seriously. Then maybe they will mature into interactive bloggers.<BR/>Finally: Good futurology starts in the past, you see.<BR/>The “difficult” true life WIP that I have mentioned to you in the Editing Blog, has its hero a missionary called Thomas Kendall. His role in the first settlement in New Zealand was to teach the maori about religion. The speed at which he learnt their language and was able to converse in it in comparison to all the other Europeans had a huge effect on what transpired. His compatriots viewed him with suspicion because he knew what was being said and they didn’t. As he learnt their language, he learnt about them and became more respectful while they were still seen as savages (think alien) by the others. This pulled him more and more away from his wife and fellow missionaries into the maori world. To exacerbate things, he was before his time and respected their rights to retain their language and culture instead of just supplanting it with Victorian England culture. More conflict. <BR/>So the lack of the ability to communicate can build huge barriers between those that can and those that can’t. It will be interesting to see if similar divisions will occur in society today between those who can “blog” and “tweet” and those that can’t. Will the non-tweeters be held in contempt?<BR/>Because my true-life WIP was proving so difficult to write, I am 7 chapters into a scifi novel using the lessons learnt in the past, guessing that if we did interact with aliens the same issues would crop up.<BR/>From what I have read, most scifi relies on the incoming aliens to have watched Earth’s TV to learn our language so they can speak to us in our language. Unless we are lucky and they are more like the Thomas Kendall’s and other enlightened first contact people of the past, Kate’s fears may come true:<BR/>Would we six billion Earthlings willingly, eagerly, line up to forget English, Russian, Chinese, Hindi, Indonesian, Japanese, and its 4000+ other languages (which means losing big chunks of the cultures that go with them) as the price of acquiring perfect command of Conversational Alien and, with it, galactic citizenship?<BR/>I am fascinated in my work environment how different our migrants are when they are able to speak to one of our staff in their own tongue. Sometimes, I have to take a customer out of the shop and into the neighbouring tobacconist so that they can translate how to use medication in Cantonese! My life would be easier if we all spoke “Conversational Alien”. Culturally though it would be poorer. It’s interesting to see how in modern New Zealand, there is a strong push to ensure young maori learn to speak in their own language. Many see that as a way to reach many who are lost in society because they have lost contact with their cultural roots.<BR/>Common language, communication, listening and taking the time for all to occur is essential for a society to function properly. Tossing random irrelevant remarks into the twitter-sphere is the antithesis of this. Will it change us? Time will tell.ozambersandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07171187154978269102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-6801466750399877152009-03-24T16:25:00.000-04:002009-03-24T16:25:00.000-04:00Re the Ulpan courses, through which "even adults e...Re the Ulpan courses, through which "even adults end up thinking in the new language, even to the extent of forgetting how to speak their native language!" ...<BR/><BR/>What happens if the Galactic Federation requires all prospective members to enroll in planet-wide Ulpan for the Federation's common language? Would we six billion Earthlings willingly, eagerly, line up to forget English, Russian, Chinese, Hindi, Indonesian, Japanese, and its 4000+ other languages (which means losing big chunks of the cultures that go with them) as the price of acquiring perfect command of Conversational Alien and, with it, galactic citizenship?KateGladstonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07062492442607584456noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-4572647328318867712009-03-24T15:56:00.000-04:002009-03-24T15:56:00.000-04:00Kimber An:Yep, you listened to me and you have som...Kimber An:<BR/><BR/>Yep, you listened to me and you have something to say! <BR/><BR/>Jacqueline Lichtenberg<BR/>http://www.simegen.com/jl/Jacqueline Lichtenberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01613040740264804278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26974492.post-58084882160587792392009-03-24T15:44:00.000-04:002009-03-24T15:44:00.000-04:00As a Certified Professional Nanny, I learned to *l...As a Certified Professional Nanny, I learned to *listen* to newborns. The key to listening to newborns is the same as the key to listening to any other human being. First, the listener must accept and believe the newborn (or other human) is worthy of respect. Newborns learn 'cause & effect' from the womb. The way they do this is when a parent or caregiver listens, takes the time to understand, and then responds accordingly. It's the same with bigger humans. This is how communication is learned and grows for all of us.<BR/><BR/>Consider the newborn who is not listened to. When she cries, the parents' first priority is to get her to shut-up. So, they stick a bottle in her mouth, change her diaper, rock her incessantly, make googly faces, stick her in a swing, whatever they can think of to get her to shut the heck up. Both parent and child may give up and withdraw from each other or they may keep trying and drive each other nuts. Some eventually figure out how to work with each other to achieve their goals. Some just endure until the baby learns adult language. And some babies end up in dumpsters. Every cry of this baby is a 'scream for attention' because she's learned what she really has to say is of no value to those around her. If what she says has no value, she concludes she must have no value either and all sorts of lifelong emotional problems set in.<BR/><BR/>Next, consider the newborn who is listened to. Alone in her bassinette, the newborn cries. The parent or caregiver walks over and listens without doing anything for a second, just listening and observing the baby's skin tone and body movements. The parent thinks, "Oh, her cousin acted just like that when she wasn't swaddled snuggly enough." The parent picks up the baby, re-swaddles her, and lays her back down. Contentedly, the baby falls back to sleep. Both parent and baby have learned this cry and movement achieves satisfaction. Now, they're set for all future swaddling 'conversations' and baby learns she is listened to and, therefore, is loved.<BR/><BR/>Bigger humans are the same way and it always amazes me when I meet someone who is not used to being listened to. Once they figure out I'm listening, they never shut up! Nothing wrong with that. An emotional need is being met. The other person usually learns to listen by example. And finally true communication is established.<BR/><BR/>My belief is if you want someone to listen to you, first listen to that person. <BR/><BR/>Personally, I don't have time for Twitter. That's okay. My Blog Buddies and I already have a good conversation going in cyberspace.Kimber Lihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03982239712083114488noreply@blogger.com